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Raiders-PG-Forum » Equipment & Patches » Equipment & Patches » OpenPG2 -> OpenGen Sortierung: Alte Beiträge zuerst  
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Rayydar
Generalspammarschall
Beiträge: 11.446


03.10.2007 23:24
OpenPG2 -> OpenGen Zitat · antworten


Unfortunately, the v2.20 of the UK-patch will probably be its last update.

The more important is a project by Luis Guzman (ingenious creator of the Suite PG2) and s.o. else, the OpenPG2.

OpenPG2 is not meant as a Unix version (some of us misunderstood that previously), but just a better PG2 with higher screen resolution, night turns like in Dynasty General and lots of more features.

You can have a look at it at

<a target="_blank" href="http://personales.ya.com/lguzman49/OpenPG2.html">http://personales.ya.com/lguzman49/OpenPG2.html</a>

and download a test version at

<a target="_blank" href="http://personales.ya.com/lguzman49/zips/OpenPG2_alpha.zip">http://personales.ya.com/lguzman49/zips/...a.zip</a>

Since this topic is made up for a discussion with Luis, please keep it in English throughout! I hope you can support him (I can't due to lack of time )!


Luis Guzman
Nachschubgefreiter
Beiträge: 27

04.10.2007 09:20
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Thank you Rayydar

Yes OpenPG2 is a project to make just a better PG2 but including some enhancements. The first idea was to improve the AI because by hackering the executable is very dificult to do that. It was Tor who had the idea of developing a new PG2 from scratch as it seemed quite imposible to get the sources.
Tor is in charge of the AI engine while I should make the GUI (user graphic interface). I am not a profesional proggramer and my skills are limited to windows and C++ so OpenPG2 will be a windows program, altough later maybe somebody else might code the GUI also for unix or mac.

One of the enhancements we plan is to improve the PEBM and TCP/IP features if possible, but I have never played PEBM neither TCP/IP, so I would need some help from expert players. And that is the reason Rayydar has opened this thread.
So to start I'd like to gather all the issues and wishes you'd like to include.
Do not hesitate to ask whichever question you want, but please do it using English ...
Clu
Oberst d. Fernschreiber
Beiträge: 3.933


04.10.2007 10:17
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Hi Luis,
i read about it at JP's. Seems to be much work. Hope the best.

Quote:
it seemed quite imposible to get the sources.

Have you tried it? What was the problem? They do not use the sources. Why didn't they gave it to you?

Quote:
I can't due to lack of time


Me too. And its getting worst and worst the next months.

By the way. Enjoy the PG-Portal-Forum.

Clu
Luis Guzman
Nachschubgefreiter
Beiträge: 27

04.10.2007 11:36
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Thank you Clu

Quote:

Have you tried it? What was the problem? They do not use the sources. Why didn't they gave it to you?



I haven't but many people had ... but no success at all.
Maybe they don't use neither need anymore, but: what do they get if they would give us ?
Clu
Oberst d. Fernschreiber
Beiträge: 3.933


04.10.2007 12:29
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Nothing.
But they only loose something they don't use.
But it's their right to do so.
NinthBit
Postingschütze
Beiträge: 139


06.10.2007 12:40
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten

Quote:
I am not a profesional proggramer and my skills are limited to windows and C++ so OpenPG2 will be a windows program, altough later maybe somebody else might code the GUI also for unix or mac.


but "later" means often "never".
i think, an openpg2 for linux would be a chance to get more players playing pg2. when you programming in c++, its not so difficulty to make the game plattform-indepent. do you want to develope your own GUI (PG2-style) or use you a gui framework? frameworks like wxwidgets are plattform-indepent, maybe use that? else (if you make your own GUI), if you use opengl, it should be easy to port the game to linux.

i hope, you didnt "import" bugs from original pg2
Rayydar
Generalspammarschall
Beiträge: 11.446


06.10.2007 14:16
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
I think a better PG2 under Windows is all we need. I don't know any computer game player who doesn't have at least a Windows partition.
So let's concentrate on the task Luis is currently working on.
NinthBit
Postingschütze
Beiträge: 139


06.10.2007 18:11
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
yes, but an openpg2 on linux would get NEW players into PG2. the linux-community havnt sooooo much good games
look at games like open transport tycoon, plattform independent too.

if luis use c++ and opengl (with SDL for input etc), the game could be plattform independent, no problems.
Sgt. Pepper
Forumsgrenadier
Beiträge: 361

07.10.2007 11:22
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Hello Luis

It really is amazing what you and Tor already did! If you implement only some of the items on the wishlist in OpenPG2 with pbem support this would be the greatest game ever!

A common problem in pbems games is, that loaded turns crash - but like NinthBit said, you probably won't duplicate this (weather) bug.

Considering improvements for pbem some things come to mind:

* A big problem are reloads. Can the program notice when a turn already has been loaded once? Maybe some DRM-technologies could make it possible that a turn can only be opened once?
* The equipment files both players use should be compared somehow.
* Can saved pbem turns be encrypted, so that no one can manipulate values?

I don't know if anything like this is feasible or possible...
Luis Guzman
Nachschubgefreiter
Beiträge: 27

07.10.2007 19:09
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten

Quote:
when you programming in c++, its not so difficulty to make the game plattform-indepent. do you want to develope your own GUI (PG2-style) or use you a gui framework? frameworks like wxwidgets are plattform-indepent, maybe use that? else (if you make your own GUI), if you use opengl, it should be easy to port the game to linux.


Maybe I could have spent a few months learning a new framework (QT would have been my best bet) but we decided to start using our proved knowledges to speed up the first clone. Which is most important, IMO is to get a working clone made from scratch, improving later is by far much more easy. So I am using the same technology I use for my tools: Microsoft Visual C++ and MFC. Besides I decided to use DirectX as I have never done any serious project using openGL / SDL.

Quote:
A common problem in pbems games is, that loaded turns crash - but like NinthBit said, you probably won't duplicate this (weather) bug.


I hope so. I'll probably include some new bugs - but we wont need so many years to fix.

I'll add your items to the first item on my list:
Better support for PBEM
* Can the program notice when a turn already has been loaded once? Maybe some DRM-technologies could make it possible that a turn can only be opened once?
* The equipment files both players use should be compared somehow.
* Can saved pbem turns be encrypted, so that no one can manipulate values?

Thank you very much for your comments.

About


NinthBit
Postingschütze
Beiträge: 139


08.10.2007 19:37
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten

Quote:
So I am using the same technology I use for my tools: Microsoft Visual C++ and MFC. Besides I decided to use DirectX as I have never done any serious project using openGL / SDL.


its your project and your decision. ogl/sdl was only a suggestion. for 2d (or you want to made pg2 3d? ) its really easy to use.
but, if you make the graphics-interface abstract enough, it should be no problem to port the game later to opengl. more importantly at the beginning is the game itself, right.
Luis Guzman
Nachschubgefreiter
Beiträge: 27

10.10.2007 22:05
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten

Quote:

its your project and your decision. ogl/sdl was only a suggestion. for 2d (or you want to made pg2 3d? ) its really easy to use.
but, if you make the graphics-interface abstract enough, it should be no problem to port the game later to opengl. more importantly at the beginning is the game itself, right.


Yes GUI will be 2D.
About directX / SDL efectively it shouldn't be a great problem to port later.
BTW: are you a programmer in any way ?
Scipio
Literaturmajor
Beiträge: 1.812


10.10.2007 23:17
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Hi,
thanks for your efforts to give PG a future behind old-fashioned hardware!

First I'd like to say, that I agree with Sgt. Pepper, that the main focus should be on improving PBEM.
On the other hand, I doubt, whether it's a good idea to introduce night combat (hard coded in the scenarios). A realistic simulation of night combat means, that sight is reduced and there're no air combats. This means, it's more or less exactly the same as rainy weather.
In contrast to that, I'd appreciate to have the opportunity to choose, whether to attack at night or at daylight. This means, that in the mirrored mode of a PBEM-match one general can attack at night and the other general attacks at daylight in the same turn.
Maybe this will cause some problems with realism, concering the duration of battles. As you know, in PG there's the option to choose how many turns represent one day.

Generally I believe, there shouldn't be to many changes in the gameplay, because one of PG's many strengthes is it's simlicity.

Maybe one technical suggestion. As you are keen on C++, why not use JAVA? As I've heard these languages are rather similar but maybe the change is easily done for you and JAVA is really platform independent.
But I'm not a professional programmer, so maybe I've overseen some other problems a change of languages causes.

Bye
Scipio
NinthBit
Postingschütze
Beiträge: 139


11.10.2007 22:29
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten

Quote:
BTW: are you a programmer in any way ?


yes. professional software developer and games developer in past (and in future again, i hope )

Quote:
Maybe one technical suggestion. As you are keen on C++, why not use JAVA? As I've heard these languages are rather similar but maybe the change is easily done for you and JAVA is really platform independent.
But I'm not a professional programmer, so maybe I've overseen some other problems a change of languages causes.


java is very nice. i've started a similarly project (but not byte-compatible with pg2, no panzer2.dat etc) in java+opengl, but with new job i've lesser time than ever before. and because of openpg2 my project would be obsolete
but in java he have to use opengl too, so there is no really change (he want to use DX, ok). for plattform-indepence opengl is the only option, and for this there are no really differences when using c++ or java.

I agree with the other guys here, better pbem-support is very important. but many of these new features (units which have to survive e.g.) are very cool und would give more options to attractive scenarios (and more pbem-players )
Rayydar
Generalspammarschall
Beiträge: 11.446


11.10.2007 23:03
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Well, guys, I guess if we want some more people to discuss OpenPG2 we should leave that technical expert level and talk about the game itself again, shouldn't we? Armchair generals - even me, despite being a programmer myself - are not interested in how their game is coded but in its features! And I'm pretty sure all we want can be coded by Luis in C++.

So please finish your 'off topic' postings, NinthBit!
Scipio's game-related suggestion (day / night combat) sounds interesting to me.
Scipio
Literaturmajor
Beiträge: 1.812


12.10.2007 11:11
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Hi,
there's another feature, that could improve PBEM. Maybe OPG2 can display the number of units of each unitclass, the opponent had at the beginning of the scenario.
Often I'm not sure, whether I've destroyed all tanks or recons and this forces me to start a match against AI and count manually the units.
This suggestion also applies to unit classes, that losses aren't documented yet (fortifications, ships).

Bye
Scipio
Sgt. Pepper
Forumsgrenadier
Beiträge: 361

12.10.2007 23:17
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Another idea: the option to disable cancel/undo of unit's movements for a pbem game.
Luis Guzman
Nachschubgefreiter
Beiträge: 27

13.10.2007 00:08
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Could I write last suggestions like this ?

* If night turns were finally included, it would be nice to have the opportunity to choose, whether to attack at night or at daylight. This means, that in the mirrored mode of a PBEM-match one general can attack at night and the other general attacks at daylight in the same turn.

* Display the number of units of each class, the opponent had at the beginning of the scenario.

* Include losses for all classes (fortifications, ships).

* Include an option to disable cancel/undo of unit's movements for a pbem game.

My questions:
Should all they be optional options ?
Should any optional option be the same for all players ?
How do you think it would be better to set up (define) ?
- Within the scenario file ?
- Once started the game by a kind of window settings, and then saving within the savegame (eml) ?
- ..... (open to suggestions)

BTW: How can I subscribe to this thread as to receive an email each time a new post is done ?
Luis Guzman
Nachschubgefreiter
Beiträge: 27

13.10.2007 00:12
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten
Sorry I forgot, could somebody send me a serie of .eml as to see by myself how it works ?
Can send to: lguzval at yahoo point es

Thanks.
NinthBit
Postingschütze
Beiträge: 139


13.10.2007 10:04
OpenPG2 Zitat · antworten

Quote:
So please finish your 'off topic' postings, NinthBit!


okok, sorry. i was very enthused, because i've saw already a chance for a game like openTTD. sorry


luis, in featurelist there are "triggers", thats sounds cool, but at this time only for messages? it would be nice to afford simple missionscripting for scenarios using triggers. so e.g. reinforcements arrive if entering a hex (or VH) or destroying an unit. or opening new DH when enterig a trigger-hex.

and air-VHs would be cool for air superiority scenarios. ok, maybe a little bit unnecessary for _panzer_general. but combined arms means aircrafts too.

Quote:

Should all they be optional options?
[...]
- Once started the game by a kind of window settings, and then saving within the savegame (eml) ?


yes.

or...

Quote:

- ..... (open to suggestions)


a global settings-menu, where can set up these options (i thínk, there will come any more) and saved in eml when starting a game, so that the opponent play with these options even if he not avtivated them.
some of these feature maybe would be "standard" in the course of time, so it would be annoying to set up these on every new pbem. and maybe onetimes you forgot one option to set, its angryly.
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